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    Interview|Vice Dean of Fudan Institute of Microelectronics: Three Shortcomings of Semiconductor Talent Supply, How to Cultivate Innovation

    In the entrepreneurship boom in the chip industry, a large number of domestic chip design start-ups have emerged, and fabs have been built in various places, resulting in a huge talent gap. What are the shortcomings of the current integrated circuit talent supply? How do colleges and universities cultivate IC talents needed by the market? How to cultivate innovative talents who can create disruptive new technologies in the institute?
    Zhou Peng, deputy dean of the School of Microelectronics of Fudan University, said in an exclusive interview with The Paper (www.thepaper.cn) that the current supply of integrated circuit talents is mainly faced with three major shortcomings: structural imbalance, brain drain, and the integration of production and education needs to be improved. Filling the gap of hundreds of thousands of talents will not happen overnight. At present, in order to solve the problem of chip production capacity, professional technical talents are needed; in order to overcome the problem of "stuck neck", innovative talents are also needed. No matter what kind of training, knowledge of physics, chemistry, materials, electronics, engineering, etc. is required. The cultivation of innovative talents should also create an equal and free space, and everyone should have a skeptical attitude. For young people who intend to enter the semiconductor industry, they should always pay attention to the latest developments in microelectronics technology at home and abroad, and cultivate their own hands-on ability and innovative consciousness. Zhou Peng said that taking Fudan University as an example, Fudan will carry out the pilot construction of the first-level doctoral degree in "Integrated Circuit Science and Engineering" in 2020, and the training of talents has been increased year by year. . But integrated circuit is a knowledge-intensive industry, and comprehensive integrated circuit talent training is a long-term process. However, the demand for talents is more urgent for enterprises, and the thirst cannot be quenched in the near future. Therefore, many enterprises tend to introduce talents and poach people with high salaries in the short term.
    However, to fundamentally solve the talent problem, the long-term joint efforts of the government, universities and enterprises are needed. Zhou Peng said that there is still a gap between the current talent training plans, content and enterprises' expectations of the talent knowledge structure in colleges and universities, and the lack of practical ability and practical engineering experience of graduates. This problem is more obvious in the field of technology. He suggested that universities and enterprises should strengthen the relationship, enterprises should provide students with more internship opportunities and cutting-edge projects, and universities should focus on the needs of engineering practice, carry out targeted education reforms, and strengthen the practical ability of talents.
    Due to the structural imbalance of talent supply to a certain extent, especially the lack of high-end leading talents and innovative talents, to solve the "stuck neck" problem of my country's integrated circuits, we must pay attention to innovative talents and original achievements, and fully stimulate the vitality of scientific researchers.
    The cultivation of innovative talents should pay more attention to the theoretical basis and innovation ability, and focus on the world's most advanced science and technology to exercise independent innovation ability. "Scientific research is the process of dividing a big problem into several small difficulties and breaking them one by one. In the process of solving difficulties and in the process of topic discussion, teachers should guide students to think divergently, not limited to the constraints of the existing framework. Encourage them to remain curious, ask more questions, and try more. Breaking through the routine is the norm in scientific research." Zhou Peng believes that to create an equal and free space, everyone should have a skeptical attitude.
    No matter what kind of training method, if you want to have a deep understanding of the microelectronics industry and related knowledge systems, and improve students' own potential, you need to have enough knowledge in physics, chemistry, materials, electronics, engineering, etc., so it will inevitably lead to more long incubation period.
    "It is unrealistic to train enough industrial talents only through colleges and universities in a short period of time, and not all types of work can only be trained through the education system." Zhou Peng said that there are also some training institutions in the market that can provide targeted short-term training. Training can make up for the shortcomings of college education and alleviate the "labor shortage" in the industry in the short term. "As for solving the talent shortage problem completely, it will take a long-term effort."
    Zhou Peng has been engaged in the research of new mechanisms, new materials and new devices of integrated circuits for a long time. Research on new devices and advanced processes has been carried out. The main representative achievements are: invented a new type of charge memory with both high-speed and non-volatile; realized high-area-efficient single-transistor logic in-situ storage and circuits; obtained high-performance Memory devices, high-efficiency algorithms, and verification chips.
    Zhou Peng's team has cooperated with researcher Hu Weida of Shanghai Institute of Technical Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, and has made original progress in the field of intelligent motion detection. Published in the top international journal "Nature Nanotechnology". The device jointly developed by the two parties truly realizes the integration of dynamic perception, storage and calculation, and performs image processing on the time scale for the first time.
    The following is the interview transcript:
    [Talent supply faces three major shortcomings, making up for the gap of hundreds of thousands of talents will not happen overnight]
    The Paper: According to the "Report on the Development of Talents in China's Integrated Circuit Industry (2020-2021 Edition)", in 2020, the scale of my country's integrated circuit-related graduates will be around 210,000. Another data shows that in 2021, there will be more than 2,800 chip design companies in my country. However, the talent gap in my country's integrated circuit industry is still over 200,000. The industry is facing the phenomenon of lack of talents and high-paying poaching. From your point of view, how is the cultivation of integrated circuit talents in colleges and universities?
    Zhou Peng, Deputy Dean of the School of Microelectronics, Fudan University: Since 2020, entrepreneurship in the chip industry has become a boom, domestic chip design start-ups have emerged in large numbers, and fabs have been built in various places, which has brought a huge talent gap.
    In response to the problem of talents, the state has issued policies, and colleges and universities have stepped up training efforts. Take Fudan University as an example. In 2020, Fudan launched the pilot construction of the first-level doctoral degree discipline of "Integrated Circuit Science and Engineering", and the training of talents has been increased year by year. It has made great efforts to this end and achieved good results.
    However, integrated circuits are a knowledge-intensive industry, and comprehensive integrated circuit talent training is a long-term process. It is not a one-time event to cultivate a group of outstanding talents to make up for the talent gap of hundreds of thousands. The demand for talents is more urgent for enterprises, and the thirst of the near cannot be quenched. Therefore, many enterprises tend to introduce talents and poach them with high salaries in the short term. However, to fundamentally solve the talent problem, long-term joint efforts of the government, universities and enterprises are needed.
    The Paper: What are the shortcomings of integrated circuit talent supply?
    Zhou Peng: In addition to the quantitative problem, the talent supply also faces several shortcomings.
    First, the integration of production and education in talent training needs to be improved. At present, there is still a gap between the plan and content of talent training in colleges and universities and the expectations of enterprises for talent knowledge structure, and the lack of practical ability and practical engineering experience of graduates. This problem is more obvious in the field of technology.
    The connection between colleges and enterprises should be strengthened. Enterprises can provide students with more internship opportunities and cutting-edge projects. Colleges and universities can focus on the needs of engineering practice and carry out targeted educational reforms to strengthen the practical ability of talents.
    The second is the loss of talents in the integrated circuit industry. The annual number of graduates in IC-related majors nationwide is around 200,000, but in 2020 as an example, only 13.77% of students are engaged in IC-related jobs after graduation, and many students tend to change careers with higher salaries and more job opportunities Internet industry.
    This is a common problem for the global semiconductor industry. Although this phenomenon has improved with the inclination of policies and the improvement of salaries, how to attract talents is still a problem that we need to think about for a long time.
    The third is the structural imbalance of talent supply to a certain extent, especially the lack of high-end leading talents and innovative talents. To solve the problem of "stuck neck" of my country's integrated circuits, we must pay attention to innovative talents and original achievements, and fully stimulate the vitality of scientific researchers.
    In addition, in the integrated circuit industry, there is also a certain imbalance in the talent structure of the design industry, manufacturing industry and packaging and testing industry. The chip design industry has high salary levels, the largest number of employees, and the fastest growth. However, chip manufacturing and packaging testing are also an important part of the semiconductor industry, and they should also be given enough attention.
    [No matter what kind of training, knowledge of physics, chemistry, materials, electronics, engineering, etc. is required]
    The Paper: Integrated circuits are a whole system, including software, hardware, and systems, and talents in all aspects are needed. On the other hand, the training cycle of chip talents is also long. From a short-term and long-term perspective, including the quantity and quality of talents, how to cultivate integrated circuit talents? In addition to introducing talents and cultivating enterprises, how can universities cultivate integrated circuit talents needed by the market?
    Zhou Peng: There are many jobs involved in the integrated circuit industry, and the way of training talents should also be targeted. At present, in order to solve the problem of chip production capacity, we need professional technical talents; in order to overcome the problem of "stuck neck", we also need innovative talents.
    For technical talents, the most important thing in the training process is to improve their practical ability. In addition to teaching theoretical courses, it is also necessary to carry out technical training in a targeted manner around the market demand, and at the same time, it is closely linked with enterprises to provide students with opportunities for internships and practical projects, so as to cultivate talents who can truly meet the needs of the market.
    For innovative talents, more emphasis is placed on theoretical basis and innovative ability in the training process. Focusing on the world's most advanced science and technology, exercise their ability to carry out independent innovation.
    But no matter what kind of training method, if you want to have a deep understanding of the microelectronics industry and related knowledge systems, and improve students' own potential, you need to have enough knowledge in physics, chemistry, materials, electronics, engineering, etc. Therefore, It will inevitably lead to a longer culture period.
    It is unrealistic to train enough industrial talents only through colleges and universities in a short period of time, and not all types of work can only be trained through the education system. For example, layout and part of the test work can also be done with the help of vocational training.
    In addition, there are some training institutions in the market that can provide targeted short-term training to make up for the shortcomings of college education and alleviate the "labor shortage" in the industry in the short term. As for solving the problem of talent shortage completely, long-term efforts are needed.
    The Paper: You mentioned innovative talents. Some people in the industry also said that the talents we ultimately lack are truly innovative and R&D talents, that is, talents who can create disruptive new technologies in universities and research institutes. The new technology created by this type of talent can make people's eyes shine, maybe useless now, but can become a breakthrough technology in the future. For colleges and universities, how to cultivate such high-end talents? How to build a suitable scientific research environment so that such talents can make breakthroughs?
    Zhou Peng: A clear knowledge context is the basis for divergent thinking. The first step in colleges and universities should design systematic semiconductor courses to ensure students have a solid knowledge reserve. At the same time, it is more important to cultivate students' ability to solve problems and discuss widely.
    Scientific research is the process of dividing a big problem into several small difficulties and breaking them one by one. In the process of solving difficulties and in the process of project discussion, teachers should guide students to think divergently, not limited to the constraints of the existing framework. Encourage them to stay curious, ask more questions, and experiment more. Breaking the norm is the norm in scientific research.
    As for the scientific research environment, I think the most important thing is to create a space of equality and freedom, so that everyone can discuss freely. In scientific research discussions, regardless of teachers and students, everyone should have a skeptical attitude. In scientific discussions and even debates, students will also think about problems from different logics. Sometimes, many exciting breakthroughs come from such multi-angle and in-depth discussions.
    [Always pay attention to the latest developments in microelectronics technology at home and abroad, and cultivate hands-on ability and innovation consciousness]
    The Paper: Emphasis on design and light on manufacturing is the current problem in the teaching of integrated circuits. Some academicians mentioned that 90% of the teaching content is design, but manufacturing is also an important part of the integrated circuit industry. A mature process engineer, the training cycle needs at least 3-5 years. How to cultivate such talents? How can universities and the industry open up the channels of production, education and research, jointly cultivate talents, and avoid being out of touch with the actual industry?
    Zhou Peng: As mentioned above, process engineers not only need the blessing of background knowledge of multiple disciplines, but also practice and innovation in the process of theoretical learning. However, there is a certain gap between universities and the industry. Facts have proved that only by continuously strengthening the interaction and cooperation between scientific research institutions and the industry, and more communication and understanding, can this problem be solved.
    The company clarifies technical difficulties and needs to colleges and universities, and colleges set scientific research goals and give suggestions and guidance to the company according to the results. In this process, not only the achievements produced by colleges and universities can be quickly converted into products by the industry, but also students gradually realize the connection between colleges and industries in the process of two-way training.
    The good news is that the cooperation between domestic academia and industry has become more and more close, and the cooperation models have become more and more abundant, and various school-enterprise cooperation models have been launched one after another.
    For example, Huawei has reached a cooperation agreement with Fudan University, and Huawei has invested research funds to fund the research and development of various new technologies.
    The Paper: Generally speaking, what challenges and opportunities does China encounter in terms of talents in the development of chips? What advice do you have for young people who choose to enter the integrated circuit major or engage in scientific research and work in the integrated circuit industry?
    Zhou Peng: Due to the late start of Chinese chips, they were too dependent on imports in the early stage, and there is a large talent gap at this stage. At the same time, the high technical difficulty of the chip industry and the long period of talent training have jointly caused the dilemma of the shortage of chip talents.
    Although it is a big challenge to say that technology is backward, the current state support, huge domestic market demand and the environment of international semiconductor shuffling and reorganization also show that it is also a huge opportunity for my country to catch up.
    In fact, the country has issued many talent policies, such as setting up a first-level discipline of integrated circuits, adjusting curriculum settings, teaching plans and teaching methods in a timely manner in accordance with the needs of industrial development, striving to cultivate compound and practical high-level talents, and intensifying efforts to introduce Top experts and outstanding talents and teams, etc.
    For young people, the domestic semiconductor industry is developing rapidly, which is a good opportunity. But at this stage, the domestic semiconductor industry is still in the initial stage, and it still faces the problem of "stuck neck". Therefore, the industry has higher requirements for independent research and development capabilities. If young people want to enter the semiconductor industry, they should always pay attention to the latest developments in microelectronics technology at home and abroad, and cultivate their own hands-on ability and sense of innovation.

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